Is John A. Greco, Jr. really worth $838,528* a year?
The interwebs are abuzz with direct marketing folks chatting about the smackdown between Gerry Pike and John Greco of the Direct Marketing Association.
Seems most of the discussion is focused on Greco’s salary — a figure that’s almost twice the industry average for a national nonprofit according to the ASAE and The Center for Association Leadership.
Truth is, I don’t really care how much John Greco is paid. I don’t spend my time thinking about how many days he works from home versus the office. I don’t wonder how much his spiral staircase cost or if he ever even got one. And I certainly don’t waste my time obsessing about whether or not his son spent two weeks in Italy.
What does matter to me — and many other people like me — is whether or not he and his Board of Directors are doing a good job for the industry. (As easy as it is to pinpoint all of this on Greco, he does in fact have a Board that also has a fiduciary responsibility to the organization they serve.)
Yesterday, one of my dear friends (and a very prominent person in the direct marketing community) called me all hot and bothered that the DMA was having a convicted felon to speak at this year’s Annual Conference. Truth is that I haven’t paid much attention to what’s happening in San Diego as I’m speaking at a competitive event. She droned on and on about what a shame and how horrific it was — as my mind raced to figure out who it was. Oh, that’s right. Martha Stewart.
Are you flipping kidding me? This is what we’re getting upset about? The industry is going to Hell in a handbasket and we’re focusing our efforts on Martha Stewart’s criminal record? We’re choosing to ignore the serious ramifications of sidewikis and postal increases in favor of the prison sentence of a Domestic Goddess? Hell, I’d personally track down Osama Bin Laden to keynote the damn thing if I thought he knew something about direct marketing and how it could benefit our community. He certainly would bring in the attendance.
The bottom line is that there are three sides to every story: his side, her side and the truth. And, there’s more than enough drama surrounding this issue than to pontificate our navels about why Kelly Browning doesn’t have access to a cell phone when he travels (please DMA, bring back Doug Berger, at least he made Weintzen’s stuff sound credible) or whether or not the AIG reference in the subject line of Gerry’s e-mail was a knock at Gene Raitt (he was the EVP and Chief Direct Marketing Officer of AIG Companies Worldwide and is expected to be the new Chairman of the DMA’s Board.)
All this noise — and noise is what it is — is what put direct marketers in this position in the first place. While the traditional catalogers were burying their heads in the sand and/or spewing that the internet was nothing but the next CB radio, companies like Amazon and eBay were popping up all over. Now look what’s happened to us. The Titanic sunk at a slower rate.
In his comments on my previous Who Is Gerry Pike? post, Lee Odden (unequivocally one of the most knowledgeable, well respected folks in the search and social space) wrote that he “would challenge those that are debating membership or that were previously members to help make the changes that will make the DMA a better, more effective and valuable organization for all its members.”
So, ask yourself:
What do I expect the Direct Marketing Association to provide for ME and my organization? (And consequently, is it possible for them to meet/exceed these expectations? In other words, are they even reasonable in 2009?)
Do I get my value from their lobbying/advocacy efforts? Education and training services? Both? Something else?
Are there other organizations (like the ACMA) I can join where I’d get more bang for my buck in terms of support?
Is it worth the time? Is it worth the money? (If you are a member just for the discount at the conferences, the fees may indeed be worth it for you.)
If you feel that the Direct Marketing Association can serve a benefit in your business and you don’t feel like you’re getting your money’s worth, I encourage you to contact Gerry or one of the other Board Members you feel best represents your position.
The Annual Board Meeting is October 18th and the deadline for Gerry (or anyone else for that matter) receiving your proxy is October 16th.
P.S. Kevin Hillstrom of Mine That Data wrote a solid article this morning with his take on the issue. Definitely worth a read!
P.P.S. If you need more information on this cagematch-without-costumes, Richard H. Levey’s articles can be found here and here. (If only the Loose Cannon was around to weigh in. This whole Levey-without-an-opinion is for the birds.) If you search for “Gerry Pike” you are likely going to find information on a porn star, so here’s his web site: http://abetterdma.org/. (And no, I haven’t checked to see if it’s the same person. There are some things I really just don’t want to know.)
October 1st, 2009 at 7:56 am
Who moved my cheese, or more precisely, who peed in my sandbox???
Amy- Excellent stuff and I agree w/ the PPS - where is the Loose Cannon when you need him???
Not that I have an opinion.
October 1st, 2009 at 10:17 am
As long as the DMA continues to hold accountable each board member, each employee, and each associate member with regard to integrity and honor to our industry, there shoud be no concerns about salaries. As members; we all need to hold ourselves accountable to ourselves and to each other so that as a team, we can continue to make strides educating the public domain as to how important our industry is to each soul on this great planet, and as to how effective we are for the world economy.
Jim Capanna
856-261-1815
October 1st, 2009 at 12:32 pm
Amy - I love the way you cut to the chase. Thank you, as always, for your potent insight. You raise the bar for DMers everywhere - umm, even if you have to sometimes beat us with it. (
October 1st, 2009 at 1:14 pm
Quick, what has the DMA SPECIFICALLY accomplished for direct marketers in the last 5 years or so? It’s an out-of-touch organization that, if it disappeared tomorrow, would hardly be missed. I’ve never met anyone outside the industry who’s said “yep, I realize just how crucial direct marketing is to our economy because of the DMA. Boy, you guys are really helping keep the economy on track.”
I’m sure Mr. Greco is doing a fine job for his $800K+ salary. Now if he could only articulate it to the public, much less the DMA’s members.
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:46 am
Hi Amy,
I do think John Greco’s salary is germane to the question of member service.
According to the American Society of Association Executives (ASAE) - the associations of associations and the Center for Association Leadership, I’ve been told:
Association CEO’s in NY with under $15,000,000 income make $222,927; with benefits it is $266,000.
Association CEO’s with more than $15,000,000 income make $359,000 with benefits bringing it to $468,000
John Greco’s salary, according to the DMA’s 2007 tax return was $720,671 + benefits of $117,857 bringing his total income for 2007 to $838,528. That is nearly double the average Association CEO income for NY.
At the same time, the tax return shows that the association revenue was $39,324,747 and expenses were $41,307,042. You can see the full tax return at: http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2008/131/810/2008-131810859-04bf1958-9O.pdf
Do I care? Not about the specifics of the who makes what, but the principle of customer service with a seeming disregard for expenses that are nearly $2 million over income. What kind of service is that giving DMA members for its dues, when in the year of such a steep loss, the president of the association’s salary is equal to 1/2 of the loss.
But I think there is another important point: Gene Raitt, the incoming DMA chairman wrote on the “Official” DMA LinkedIn Group under the discussion, Who is Gerry Pike? “I could always use more help, so if you have the same passion as I do about our industry (and it certainly seems like that’s the case), then help us all by stepping up and making a contribution.
My replay:
What’s the problem at DMA?
The association doesn’t need an interactive marketer to head it in order to ‘get with the times,’ it needs to BE an interactive marketer.
Customers are King today - The president takes direction from the Board. The Board is representative of each segment of the industry and it takes direction from the members.
DMA has got it backwards. While I appreciate your offer, Gene, to have me ‘help’ you in leadership, I believe it is the DMA Board who should be helping me and all of it’s members to learn, to protect my interests through diplomatic lobbying, to be an attractive place for me to connect with up and coming interactive marketers and seasoned marketers. It’s about 75% attraction and 25% promotion. In today’s business, the individuals are publishers, the company that gives its members the opportunity to speak about their products and services are utilizing customers as their R&D department.
I learned long ago that the company that ignores the disguntled customers, can be assured that that customer will tell at least 9 other people of the bad service he/she has recieved.
The company that learns to listen to its customers, to make good on its promise of delivering good service and good products, will not only maintain a customer, but will maintain a loyal customer.
Gene, I appreciate the passion that you have for serving the industry. I, also, have a passion and love for this business. I served as Sr. VP PR/Communications for 12 years in its heyday. But in today’s marketing world, patriarchal leadership has become a dinosaur. To revitalize the DMA, open the doors to criticism, learn what needs to be changed in your services and in your products, become an organization that not only talks about the interactive world we are now in, but is an example of interactivity.
Until there is a radical change in point of view, until there is a getting current with the marketing world as it is today, the glory days of DMA as a powerful lobbying, public relations and member service organizations could fade away.
But it doesn’t have to - I hope your leadership as the next chairmen of the DMA will begin the process of listening to your frustrated and disgruntaled customers. Serve them - and they will come back to the DMA.
Connie LaMotta, formerly Connie Heatley
October 2nd, 2009 at 4:31 pm
Connie, if Greco was doing an amazing job and the organization was thriving, do you really think folks would be yapping about his salary? I mean, the NonProfit Times article came out months ago and outside of a select few, I didn’t hear much about it — as opposed to the dozens of e-mails I am getting now.
As an employer, I think, if Greco’s salary was decreased to the industry average, would it make him more palatable as the leader of the organization?
Personally, I think if we get all caught up in talking about how much he’s paid, we lose our impact. In many ways, this matter is going to be settled by the Board of Directors. You know, the ones who approved his salary in the first place.
October 4th, 2009 at 11:38 pm
“Pike’s Pique” is a good thing. It started a discussion that is long overdue.
Amy really said it all here, and I agree with Connie too. DMA needs to be interactive itself,,,as in wanting to keep members (like our company) and even asking them to come back when they leave. What a concept!
There was a time when Francesco or Jonah would call..even Weintzen had some great meetings and called many of us in to join him. We were engaged then…helping the group help its members.
Now I’m thinking that all the greats: Bob Stone, Larry Chait, Nat Ross are looking down at us thinking…we have all the skills for measurement that are easily transferred to the web. We understand integration, and CRM…and somehow other groups invented themselves (in front of our eyes) and started learning and teaching what we’ve been doing for years.
I’m glad Gene Raitt is going to head the Board. I do hope though that Gerry Pike gets a say with a load of proxies. It may be the only way that the DMA will start paying attention to its members again, and providing value to them again.
October 5th, 2009 at 8:34 am
If the words; Powerful Lobbying Group and the DMA ever appeared in the same sentence then I might think differently about the DMA. However, my sense is that no Washington politician knows about or cares about the needs of the Direct Marketing community. Given its size, number of employees and customer base the DMA should have some credibility in Washington but the DMA has failed to gain any traction for its members.